Playing from a Hazard

[MGL]

OK, rule installment #2 from my 4BBB yesterday!

Miserable Old Moaner (MOM) hits a ball onto and through the back the green on a Par 3. There's water at the back with red posts marking the edge into the water hazard. Walks down and can't find his ball (doesn't play a provisional). After much moaning and twisting - I eventually find his ball for him. Obviously, wish I hadn't effing bothered but there you go.

No question its in the hazard - he accepts that - but is still on land, deeply buried in some tall grass, reed type sh1t. He goes to get his club into it after deciding not to take a drop. I tell him he can't touch the grass before hitting the ball. He says he's allowed to hit the grass in the course of his swing. He then proceeds to wack the bank and get nowhere near the ball. (it was pretty much an unplayable lie tbh  )

Anyway, my view is that he can't touch the grass as part of his backswing - only as he comes down to hit the ball. My reasoning for this stems from the English guy who called a penalty on himself over in a play-off on the US tour last season (can't remember his name) when he hit a branch or something on his backswing when he was playing from a hazard. He called the penalty and then lost by one shot but got loads of kuodos for sporting behaviour.

I was also thinking that this would be the same as hitting the sand on the backswing if you were in a bunker - surely that means you grounded the club??

Hopefully someone will confirm so I can go and tell this MOM he's a tw@t next time I see him!!

[3puttwizard]

That was Brian Davis

http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Davis-calls-penalty-on-himself-gives-up-shot-at?urn=golf-234963

[SkankyShanky]

I think you're right. At ours we have sod wall bunkers and if you hit the wall on your backswing that is "testing the hazard".

[Stu-Pid]

You cannot ground your club in a hazard, but grounding is not the same as touching part of the grass or reeds. 

The rule that Brian Davis broke was touching a loose impediment in a hazard during his backswing, if he would have touched something that was growing then he wouldn't have incurred a penalty.

[Roland]

You cannot ground your club in a hazard, but grounding is not the same as touching part of the grass or reeds. 

The rule that Brian Davis broke was touching a loose impediment in a hazard during his backswing, if he would have touched something that was growing then he wouldn't have incurred a penalty.

I thought he hit something fixed to the ground?

[Vince Baby]

USGA Decisions Book

13-4/8 When Club Touches Ground in Grass in Water Hazard

Q. If a player's ball lies in a water hazard, when is his club in tall grass considered to be touching the ground in the water hazard, in breach of Rule 13-4b?

A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club (i.e., when the club is grounded).

[ecclesrec]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZUs-_Vakp0&feature=related[/youtube]

[Dick in Shorts]

As I understand it you can touch the grass in a hazard as long as it is still growing.
 Brian Davis moved a loose impediment - so like moving leaves in a bunker.

As long as MOM doesn't compress the grass down - thus improving his lie or grounding his club - he is ok

[MGL]

Unfortunately, it looks like the MOM was right! 

Will keep wracking my brains until I find something to nail the b@5tard on!

As you can tell, he didn't really get to me!

We still shot 38 points though!

[Keve]

I'm sure your question was about moving sand on your back swing in a bunker. That's not allowed nor is moving water in a hazard if you elect to try and play it. I remember Faldo getting caught on slow mo camera years ago, 1 tiny droplet could just barely be seen.

[MisterS3]

I'm sure your question was about moving sand on your back swing in a bunker. That's not allowed nor is moving water in a hazard if you elect to try and play it. I remember Faldo getting caught on slow mo camera years ago, 1 tiny droplet could just barely be seen.

Also last year Faldo was commentating on PGA Tour event and this happened with the water.

[Stu-Pid]

I'm sure your question was about moving sand on your back swing in a bunker. That's not allowed nor is moving water in a hazard if you elect to try and play it. I remember Faldo getting caught on slow mo camera years ago, 1 tiny droplet could just barely be seen.

No, he was assuming that touching grass in a hazard was the same as touching sand in a bunker, which it isn't.

[MGL]

No, he was assuming that touching grass in a hazard was the same as touching sand in a bunker, which it isn't.

Stu-pid is right: I was making an assumption that moving sand on the backswing would be classed the same as moving grass on the backswing. However, according to the rules posted by Vince-Baby, I was wrong. They are definitely classed differently.

[Longshot]

I'm sure your question was about moving sand on your back swing in a bunker. That's not allowed nor is moving water in a hazard if you elect to try and play it. I remember Faldo getting caught on slow mo camera years ago, 1 tiny droplet could just barely be seen.

I bet Big Jim had to go through that video hundreds of times just to make sure before he reported it 

[Keve]

No, he was assuming that touching grass in a hazard was the same as touching sand in a bunker, which it isn't.

Not like you to find a technicality.