My Mini Review of my St Andrews Trip

[aces_up1504]

Just thought i would give you my thoughts and opinions on the courses i played while up in St Andrews

First up was Kingsbarns on the thursday morning, the weather was sunny and stiff but playable breeze.

The rating speak for them selves on how good this course is.

I guess one of the biggest talking point is that the course for the most part is completely man made so i guess most of the humps and hollows are thought out, so very little is done in the way of natures work. Which is what some people view of links golf should be and therefore Kingsbarns could be considered by some as anti links golf.

But to me, for the most part Kingsbarns looks completely natural and could have been shaped by nature, this is somewhat tempered by the use of plateaus which do look a little unnatural at times as the lands climbs away from the sea but its easy forgiven as it allows each hole to have it own identity and affording every hole a view.

Now to the view, if there is a course in which every hole can offer a views as stunning as Kingbarns play it! They really are something else.

But you can get a view just walking the dog, thankfully the course is also brilliant. Not every hole is brilliant but i dont think there is a weak hole as such. Some just as more outstanding as the others.

The 2nd for example is probably a run of the mill par 3 links hole, so looks weak in comparsion to the other par 3s on the course.

It has some of the best holes i have had the pleasure of playing. The 3rd is a stunning par 5, with rewards and penalties for trying to reach the green in 2.

The 4th a par 4 with a 200y carry over a hiuge deep bunker  but the reward is offering plenty of run and a short pitch into a green which just seems to sit on the horizon or you can play safe  and avoid the bunker but risk some fairway bunkers and a trickier approach to the green.

The risk reward nature of course is evident a great deal through the course, the 5th a short par 4, an easy lay up or a rish a big drive and thread it through bunkers and rewarded with hollows leading the ball  on to the green. The same risk reward shot is evident on the 14th.

The pick of the holes, undoubtly are on the back 9. The 15th the par 3 over the beach is just out of this world and the par 5 12th along the beach with its 70y green is probably the best par 5 i have played again with the braver drives nearer to the sea shortening the hole.

The club house is hits the nail on the head  mixing the modern with the traditional. You would expect a club which has no members or history for the club house to feel stale but to me it felt the complete opposite and could have quite happily spend all day in the club house. A special mention to the showers which were roasting hot and powerfull just what you need after a round!

Yes the price is also sky high and the course is dominated by yanks, but obviously the price is correct as it blocked solid through out the summer months.


Second on the list was Crail Balcomie Links.

Not sure how to review this course, first up its a couple of miles down the road from Kingsbarns and i guess the course is on the type of land Kingsbarns was before the bulldozers moved in. Again the views are stunning but not quite as good as Kingsbarns because the course lack the dunes which frame the views from kingsbarns and the leads to the big point, I dont really think the course is a links course, it plays more like a meadow like course, so it is missing the humps, hollows, dunes, heather, bracken, gorse you expect from a links course and this leads to the course lacking in defintion at points between holes.

Its probably has more holes directly on the sea than Kingsbarns and these are probably the best on the course, 3 and 4th require drives over the beach unfortuantely for visit the wind picked up straight into our face meaning the risk reward of taking on the beach was spoilt. The 15th for me was the best hole on the course a short par 4 ( almost drivable for me) with the sea tight to the right with it cutting it back to protect the green on two sides.

The 13th and 14th par 3s total opposites one uphill and one down hill also highlights of the course.

Given the club is one of the oldest in the world, the clubhouse had obviously been redeveloped and offered great views over the 15-18th it just felt stale and very little sense of history.
 
But i think you take the sea away from the course and your left with a 6/10 course and probably slightly over priced at £57 but still the sea is there and its well worth playing.

Will continue it tomorrow

[Tomba]

Nice reviews.

I thought after reading what most guys on here said about Crail this week that I might have been harsh on what I thought or maybe my dire game the day I played it years ago tainted my view.

I really dont see it as anything too special. There are far better courses in the area for the same or cheaper green fees. Your 6/10 nails it for me.

I've yet to play Kingsbarns but have promised myself to go one day.

[Stu-Pid]

But i think you take the sea away from the course and your left with a 6/10 course and probably slightly over priced at £57 but still the sea is there and its well worth playing.

I thought after reading what most guys on here said about Crail this week that I might have been harsh on what I thought or maybe my dire game the day I played it years ago tainted my view.

I really dont see it as anything too special. There are far better courses in the area for the same or cheaper green fees. Your 6/10 nails it for me.

6/10 seems ridiculously harsh to me, but I guess it depends on your ratings scale.  The course is obviously made by the sea and the stunning views, and yes if you take those away then it wouldn't be anything special, but you can't do that when it comes to course reviews, you have to rate the course in front of you, not what it would be like if its best feature was removed.

There were certainly a few slightly bland holes IMO, and the routing was slightly up and down at times, with holes having very little separation.  However, there were also some fantastic holes. 

The 1st to me was a perfect par 4 opener, with a stunning elevated view of the course in front of you and offering a good chance for birdie, but also with enough trouble to keep you on your toes.  The 2nd was a great par 5 hole that again offered a birdie chance, but with the constant peril of the sea to your right.  The par 3 3rd was slightly spoiled by not being able to see the green from the tee, and so you didn't realise quite how brave you had to be to take on the pin.  If that tee was slightly more elevated, or if the ground between the tee and the green sloped down to let you see the target it would be a great hole.  The 4th and 5th were obviously fantastic holes, and probably the best on the course, with the risk reward element sadly not being in play on the day we played due to the wind, but you could still appreciate how good they were. 

The next few holes were slightly disappointing given what you've just played, but you can't play 18 holes along the sea edge.  Having said that though I enjoyed the 7th, with the double green complex giving a real challenge, and the bunkering on the 9th and the location of the OB always made it a challenge and a good risk reward short hole.  10 and 11 were both pretty average, but I thought that 12 was a good par 5 (even better if you play to the correct green...) and 13 was a really tough par 3.  14 was a great short par 3 with stunning views and although 15 didn't look as good from the tee as it did from the elevated clubhouse, no one could argue that it wasn't a fantastic hole.  At this point I should probably also give a mention to the walk between the 14th and 15th tees, which was probably the most scenic and tranquil wander between holes that I can remember playing.  16 was a nice little par 3 up the hill with danger lurking all round, but there's obviously no denying that 17 and 18 are a slightly disappointing way to finish after some of the holes that have come before, even if neither were bad holes in their own right.

I thoroughly enjoyed the course personally, and don't know how anyone could play golf in those surroundings and not be slightly in awe at times.  As I said in another post, I think that the Scots guys are ridiculously spoiled to have so many great links courses to choose from, and I don't doubt that there are some (and probably many) that are a complete cut above Crail, but that doesn't make Crail an average course, it just makes it a very good one surrounded by better ones.

I'd have no hesitation in giving it an 8/10, and would go back and pay £57 to play it again any time.   

[Tonypate]

6/10 seems ridiculously harsh to me, but I guess it depends on your ratings scale.  The course is obviously made by the sea and the stunning views, and yes if you take those away then it wouldn't be anything special, but you can't do that when it comes to course reviews, you have to rate the course in front of you, not what it would be like if its best feature was removed.

There were certainly a few slightly bland holes IMO, and the routing was slightly up and down at times, with holes having very little separation.  However, there were also some fantastic holes. 

The 1st to me was a perfect par 4 opener, with a stunning elevated view of the course in front of you and offering a good chance for birdie, but also with enough trouble to keep you on your toes.  The 2nd was a great par 5 hole that again offered a birdie chance, but with the constant peril of the sea to your right.  The par 3 3rd was slightly spoiled by not being able to see the green from the tee, and so you didn't realise quite how brave you had to be to take on the pin.  If that tee was slightly more elevated, or if the ground between the tee and the green sloped down to let you see the target it would be a great hole.  The 4th and 5th were obviously fantastic holes, and probably the best on the course, with the risk reward element sadly not being in play on the day we played due to the wind, but you could still appreciate how good they were. 

The next few holes were slightly disappointing given what you've just played, but you can't play 18 holes along the sea edge.  Having said that though I enjoyed the 7th, with the double green complex giving a real challenge, and the bunkering on the 9th and the location of the OB always made it a challenge and a good risk reward short hole.  10 and 11 were both pretty average, but I thought that 12 was a good par 5 (even better if you play to the correct green...) and 13 was a really tough par 3.  14 was a great short par 3 with stunning views and although 15 didn't look as good from the tee as it did from the elevated clubhouse, no one could argue that it wasn't a fantastic hole.  At this point I should probably also give a mention to the walk between the 14th and 15th tees, which was probably the most scenic and tranquil wander between holes that I can remember playing.  16 was a nice little par 3 up the hill with danger lurking all round, but there's obviously no denying that 17 and 18 are a slightly disappointing way to finish after some of the holes that have come before, even if neither were bad holes in their own right.

I thoroughly enjoyed the course personally, and don't know how anyone could play golf in those surroundings and not be slightly in awe at times.  As I said in another post, I think that the Scots guys are ridiculously spoiled to have so many great links courses to choose from, and I don't doubt that there are some (and probably many) that are a complete cut above Crail, but that doesn't make Crail an average course, it just makes it a very good one surrounded by better ones.

I'd have no hesitation in giving it an 8/10, and would go back and pay £57 to play it again any time.   

Agreed for the most part stu, although some of the weaker holes did detract only a little from an otherwise fantastic layout.

Thought the driveable par 4 7th was a very weak hole - a blind drive down the hill to a featureless green didn't grab my attention. The 15th also was a little bland imo even with the oob all down the left and behind the green, a hooked 3 wood found me with a short pitch up the side of the green.
17 and 18 were not bad holes as you say, great views from the tees and both tough tests even without any wind.

Maybe I'd view it differently playing straight from kingsbarns but 7.5/10 would seem fair to me

[Stu-Pid]

Thought the driveable par 4 7th was a very weak hole - a blind drive down the hill to a featureless green didn't grab my attention. The 15th also was a little bland imo even with the oob all down the left and behind the green, a hooked 3 wood found me with a short pitch up the side of the green.
17 and 18 were not bad holes as you say, great views from the tees and both tough tests even without any wind.

I'd agree on the 7th, but I thought that the 15th was a great example of a risk reward hole.  I took driver and was 5 yards from going OB, but had a simple chip up the green as a reward.  If you hit an iron off the tee and play it sensibly, there is still the risk of the OB surrounding the green for your second shot, especially if you bail out right off the tee to avoid the OB, as your angle into the green then really brings the OB into play.

Plus, how can any hole that looks like that be bland?   

[MisterS3]

I would never drive past Kingsbarns to play Crail given the choice. I've played both 3 times.

The last 4 holes at Crail don't fit with the course and are a weak finish to a what is otherwise a pretty good course. In fact 15-18 almost feels like a practise area! That's why when we're up there at the end of the month we won't be playing it. There are plenty of others in the area better in my opinion for the same or less money. Or at least worth a try in comparison to Crail.

BTW - i've never played Crail where you can carry the corner at 5. I can't remember if anyone did at the event there but my mate hits 275 carry (fitted for Graf blue Stiff) and on the day we played it 2 years ago he never made it across.

[Stu-Pid]

I would never drive past Kingsbarns to play Crail given the choice. I've played both 3 times.

The last 4 holes at Crail don't fit with the course and are a weak finish to a what is otherwise a pretty good course. In fact 15-18 almost feels like a practise area! That's why when we're up there at the end of the month we won't be playing it. There are plenty of others in the area better in my opinion for the same or less money. Or at least worth a try in comparison to Crail.

I wouldn't drive past RSG to play Princes if they were both offered to me for free, but that doesn't make Princes a bad course, it just makes RSG a better course.

I really didn't feel like 15- 18 felt like a practice area, and all were decent holes in their own right.  They don't fit in with many of the other holes admittedly (with the exception of 15 which I think fitted it with the early holes), but that doesn't make them bad holes.  Disappointing in comparison maybe, and disappointing not to finish on one of the highlight holes, but not weak.

And lastly, I don't doubt that there are better courses in the area, and that some may be available for the same money, but that's why the rating scale goes up to 10, so that you can give higher scores to courses that are better.  Crail got an 8 from me, which leaves room to rates other courses higher.  If anyone rates Crail as a 6/10 then I'd hate to see what they rate some of the courses that we play down South.  Maybe our rating systems are just calibrated differently.

[aces_up1504]

Before i put my thoughts down Eden and Leven,

Which did you think was the better course from Eden and Crail, once you take the views out of the equation?

[inoculator]

Good question.

Both have some bland/weak holes but overall Balcomie wins for me.

Slightly off topic but I thoroughly recommend the Craighead Course at Crail to anyone who's not played it, if your back up that way. Good course with some excellent greens & bunkering.

[aces_up1504]

Good question.

Both have some bland/weak holes but overall Balcomie wins for me.

Slightly off topic but I thoroughly recommend the Craighead Course at Crail to anyone who's not played it, if your back up that way. Good course with some excellent greens & bunkering.

I just swing it the other way and would play Eden again over Crail especially as it nearly £20 cheaper, if you have to factor in price.

[inoculator]

I just swing it the other way and would play Eden again over Crail especially as it nearly £20 cheaper, if you have to factor in price.

Wasn't thinking about price but if that was a factor would probably plump for Eden. Crail is only £15 though if you play their open in August

[MisterS3]

Eden is better than Crail for me (not factoring in cost) And it's not as if i have bad memories of Crail (I won the event there earlier this year). And i'd say 8 is far too generous. 6.5 is what i'd score it. If you're putting Dundonald in there at say 8 and Kingsbarns for me at 9. Carnoustie, Gullane 1 etc all sit at the 8/9 bracket too. And that's not mentioning Dukes, New and all the courses around Arbroath.

[Stu-Pid]

Which did you think was the better course from Eden and Crail, once you take the views out of the equation?

Why are we taking views out of the equation?   

Honestly, I really don't get that.  Golf courses are as much about how they make you feel as how good the greens are or how well the bunkering is laid out, and I loved every moment of my wander around Crail, and preferred it to the Eden course.  On my personal ratings I put the Eden down as a 7 (same as the Jubilee), as although I enjoyed the layout and thought it was good value at £40, I really didn't like the 15th and 16th, and thought there were a few too many holes that I could take or leave, and certainly none that will stay in the memory like some at Crail will.

[Tonypate]

Why are we taking views out of the equation?   

Honestly, I really don't get that.  Golf courses are as much about how they make you feel as how good the greens are or how well the bunkering is laid out, and I loved every moment of my wander around Crail, and preferred it to the Eden course.  On my personal ratings I put the Eden down as a 7 (same as the Jubilee), as although I enjoyed the layout and thought it was good value at £40, I really didn't like the 15th and 16th, and thought there were a few too many holes that I could take or leave, and certainly none that will stay in the memory like some at Crail will.

15 and 16 were difficult holes on the day, but wouldn't say they were out of keeping with the rest of the course. 13 and 14 on the other hand looked like the typical resort / parkland style hole going against the feel of the rest of the course.

Other than those 2 holes, I felt the rest of the course flowed much better than Crail, so overall would rate it higher as a course, but some much better individual holes at Crail which were worth the green fees alone (well, up to a point) and I'm glad I played there.

[aces_up1504]

Why are we taking views out of the equation?   

Honestly, I really don't get that.  Golf courses are as much about how they make you feel as how good the greens are or how well the bunkering is laid out, and I loved every moment of my wander around Crail, and preferred it to the Eden course.  On my personal ratings I put the Eden down as a 7 (same as the Jubilee), as although I enjoyed the layout and thought it was good value at £40, I really didn't like the 15th and 16th, and thought there were a few too many holes that I could take or leave, and certainly none that will stay in the memory like some at Crail will.

Good point on the view of the course,  But a course should not be rated on views and lack of views although it should hold some weight

 and I agree with your rating of Eden as a 7.

But for me Crail had to many average holes (Holes 7 to 12, 17 and 18) to rate it anymore than 6, dont get me wrong i enjoyed the course and very happy we picked it as a venue to play on the views alone and for the excellence of some of the par 3s but as i mentioned if you take the views away from the course your left with a very average course.

I know its ifs, buts and maybes but Crail was inland and the 4th and 5th was just played over waste land as OBB to stop you cutting the hole you would not think that much of the holes, But the added excitment of playing over the sea is what makes the hole as its something most of us dont get to do every day playing golf.

Take the 16th at Kingsbarns, really the Sea/ Beach does not come into play unless you really hit a poor ball, yes its there and what makes the hole look so pretty, but its also a fantastic par 3 without the views, with its 3 tiers placed at angles away from the tee allowing the hole to play lots of different distances without even moving the tee.