Interesting results

[gripmyshaft]

Thought I'd share some recent fiddling with you lot

Recently I've been messing around with various steel shafts for irons and using myself and my own clubs as a dummy. Got onto the trackman for my own learning experience as Flightscope is usually my choice for this. Used the grass range at Meldrum House where I play and practice.

Had two main targets and that was to analyse the characteristics of each shaft and secondly to look at the effects of incorrect loft and lie. I also wanted to see which heads I prefferred from my three sets. I used 3 or 4 sets of MP-33's before finding something else that I liked that didnt eat the face of the club. Mizunos for me go through grooves and faces too quickly...



Equipment:

Callaway X-Prototype Blades 1 degree upright std loft
Miura CB-201 players cavities std lie 1 degree strong loft
Adams Pro Black MB Blades std lie std loft

Shafts:

KBS Tour
KBS C-Taper
Shimada Tours
Dynamic Gold Tour Issue

I had a selection of each shaft in each club and my stats are basically im 95 mph clubhead speed with a 6 iron and 110-115 mph with driver. Traditionally im like Sergio but not as good I take it back slightly on the outside at a steep angle, get it into position at the top and because of a grip flaw when i was younger I then lay it off, drop it on the inside, tuck my right elbow into my body and hit it from the inside with quite a steep attack angle. I made a swing change to stop the elbow tuck and limit the lay off at the top, so at the moment im able to reproduce both swings. This helps these tests for me because the direct result is two different varieties of lag and angle of attack.

I used both swings, so I could compare lag and alternate between shaft flexes to highlight distance changes with flex change without compromising my ability to use the shaft adequately and produce optimal numbers. Too complex? One swing for stiff shafts (reduced lag) and one for x stiff (increased lag).

Having hit both swings off the fitting board I know regardless of swing plane I still manage to square up the clubface pretty well and 1 degree upright is what I need. Most were 0.n open or shut which is generally pretty good. I'm always from the inside but I already know the magnitude of this will determine my shot accuracy and ability to square it up without doing something ridiculous with my hands.

So onto the testing.....

Direct comparisons of the shafts was needed in the same clubheads, so I hit 10 balls with each configuration and looked at the actual trackman numbers, throwing out any abnormal shots (1 or 2 in 10).

Right away it was very clear I had an issue with the Miuras. They spin a good bit more than the other clubs, not sure if this is a cavity thing but I'm reasonably confident that is the case. Despite being 1 degree strong they still offered up more spin than the Adams and Callaways.

The Adams are a half club longer at standard lie, but nearly all shots were slightly open. Toe catching ground and opening up the face. So I bent them 1 degree upright. Now they were a full club longer than the other two sets. Remarkable, but expected all the same. The Adams are also the lowest spinning of the 3 clubs by a huge margin (circa 400 rpm). Quite a hard metal which feels quite soft but they have excellent ball speed off the faces. These also have conforming grooves despite being made before the cutoff. Just damn low spinning heads but this is also fairly common knowledge. Clearly managed to show how the correct lie angle will help get the clubhead square and there is always distance to throw into the analysis when looking at your lie angle. There is every possibility too upright will shut the face for you, so you might hit it further, but this might be because the club is slightly closed at impact. Only a launch monitor can help you with this. The board can indicate it, but the monitor will show it in hard facts.

The Callaway protos are smack in the middle and this looks entirely down to spin. They have a great feel and still quite responsive. More feedback than the Miuras which is to be expected because Miuras can feel a bit dead to me. Adams are harder feeling and more clicky. I really like my Adams because they have least visual offset and thinnest topline but the Callaways are a good compromise.

Next season I'll be using the Callaways for sure. Best all round compromise and despite being slightly higher spin than the Adams, as you'll soon read below thats going to be a good thing for me. The heads feel lighter than the Adams, so I'm going to have to ruin them and cover them in lead tape. Dont shoot me

We quickly realised that the shafts were also quite different with launch, spin and carry distance.

Without boring you too much with the stats, the results for shafts were as so...

Launch:  KBS Tour > Shimada Tour > KBS C Taper > Dynamic Gold

Spin: Shimada Tour > KBS Tour > KBS C Taper > Dynamic Gold

Distance: KBS Tour > Dynamic Gold > KBS C Taper > Shimada Tour

Very strange results for the C Taper. Technically they should fly the farthest, but for me they didnt. I can only explain this by suggesting they felt more stable and I swung these more smoothly. I certainly felt I was going at it harder with the KBS Tour because they felt a tad lighter. I love them though despite them not being the longest. I'm half a club shorter with them in the Callaway protos than the Adams with the KBS Tour, but I square the club up 50% more often. Accurate as hell!

Coming from the KBS tour myself I love the feel but they launch too high and spin a bit too much for me when I attack the ball from the inside. Hopeless at links courses which I found this year showed in my scoring. I simply had no confidence hitting these with my steep swing on links grass and I hit the ball badly on links all year. Maybe ok for my on plane swing, but then again they are still not as stable as the C Taper and launch is still higher than I'd like. I know for sure now that the KBS tour is not for me.

The Shimadas feel excellent. Very stable and great to look down at but they spin way too much for me. They'd suit someone with maybe 10 to 20 mph lower SS than me, or someone with a much more shallow AOA. They launch quite low however, so these are a great inbetweener shaft. Not for me though.

DG's are traditionally my pet hate. I think they're cheaply made for mass production and their weights and flexes in a set can be all over the shop. The spines are huge and I simply dont like how they play. These were in here simply for comparison. For you guys though these spun the lowest and launched the lowest but they feel like sh*t to me. End result is not stable through impact and a total no go for my irons. They also feel very much tip focused over the KBS shafts which feel more balanced throughout the shaft. Some people like this.

When it came to flex I confirmed I need to stick with my swing changes and get more stability through the hitting area. I need a shallower AOA and I need to get used to a lower amount of lag in the swing. With my laggy swing I can hit X flex miles and S flex even further but I dont need the distance, I need control because I have fast hands. X Flex flew shorter for me with my new swing too, but very very stable and I can get the flight I want. Just goes to show, that even with the same swing speed two players (or two swings) can require a different flex.

For me, I'm going to need a touch more spin to help me with my reduced AOA with my new swing but I'm getting that from the clubhead rather than the shaft. The higher spinning shafts just dont feel right to me and despite being higher spin, the Callaways go nicely with a lower launching and spinning shaft - the C Taper in X Flex.

The other thing to note from my experience is that fitting is wholly dependant on you swinging the club repeatably. I showed two different results with two different swings. Players looking for fitting to help them improve should look at their swings first. Fitting really is a fine tuning excercise and should be taken with a pinch of salt if you're going through change. I managed to work it out because I know where I'm going with the changes, but tread carefully if you're a swing changer as well as a club fiddler

Over winter I'll build the Callaway protos with C Taper X Flex and some Sky Iomic Sticky 2.3 grips and make damn sure before next season my new swing is repeatable!

Hope that was worth reading, thought it might be of benefit or interest of some on here.

[gripmyshaft]

I should also add, the results were interesting because the reports are that the C taper is substantially longer than the KBS tour etc. I know many people do find them a lot longer but this wasnt the case for me - I picked up a lot of stability.

[freded]

How long/how many balls have you hit to get the 33s looking like that?

[gripmyshaft]

That was one winter and one relatively intense season playing 4 times a week and practicing for 10 hours a week on a grass range.

I'll grab a pic of the McGregor lob wedge I used that year, it's almost through in a hole!

[hotbaws]

Interesting results indeed especially as your SS is almost identical to mines and I've got a very steep AoA, something stupid with the driver -7

When I had the Protos with my X C-Tapers they spun far too much for me 7000rpm+ IIRC on the trackman during my recent Mizuno fitting. My Macgregor Combos with X KBS Tours spun even more

Yet when the Mizuno fitter tried me with the MP-63's and X KBS it drop my launch and spin rate to pretty much optimal numbers

Anyway I've since bought a set of MP-63's and put my C-Tapers in them and I'm hoping to get back on the trackman in a couple of weeks to check the numbers out..

[gripmyshaft]

They certainly dont react well to a steep AOA thats for sure, which is a little strange considering those looking to lower their launch would quite often have a steep AOA. Seems they fit well for those who do have a good AOA but looking to lower launch. With a bit of luck that will be ok for me with my more on plane swing.

Hmm, same swing speed, same choice in irons and shafts, similar taste in shoes. Is there something going on here?

[3puttwizard]

I should also add, the results were interesting because the reports are that the C taper is substantially longer than the KBS tour etc. I know many people do find them a lot longer but this wasnt the case for me - I picked up a lot of stability.

8-10 yards for me. Lower spin. Not everyone's cup of tea.

[Ant]

Interesting reading. Thanks.

[freded]

That was one winter and one relatively intense season playing 4 times a week and practicing for 10 hours a week on a grass range.

I'll grab a pic of the McGregor lob wedge I used that year, it's almost through in a hole!

Probably the grass range that helped contribute to that amount of wear.  I've always loved the look of clubs with sweetspot wear but have never kept a set long enough to develop it

[gripmyshaft]

Probably the grass range that helped contribute to that amount of wear.  I've always loved the look of clubs with sweetspot wear but have never kept a set long enough to develop it

This will get you going then...





Used for two seasons and I just loved it. I've never had such a good short game after stopping using this. Used it for everything, as you can see

[wuuki456]

Probably the grass range that helped contribute to that amount of wear.  I've always loved the look of clubs with sweetspot wear but have never kept a set long enough to develop it

Just be like me and hit it all over the face 

[MGL]

The other thing to note from my experience is that fitting is wholly dependant on you swinging the club repeatably. I showed two different results with two different swings. Players looking for fitting to help them improve should look at their swings first. Fitting really is a fine tuning excercise and should be taken with a pinch of salt if you're going through change. I managed to work it out because I know where I'm going with the changes, but tread carefully if you're a swing changer as well as a club fiddler

Great write up - very interesting to read.

I'm not sure I agree with your comments re: fitting though. Personally, I think it depends on the level of the player to some extent. For example, I fitted a guy who was relatively new to the game and his handicap this year (April) was 28. Swing was all over the place and no repeatability of swing at all. He was clearly using the wrong clubs and they were poorly fitted to him. I worked with him over a number of sessions, changed his complete bag and he is now off 22 and has won a few things at the club were we are members. Swing is still all over the place but by and large he now keeps the ball on the course!

Another player (14 years old) playing off 6, jacked in school to give becoming a pro a serious go (that's for another debate I guess) and came to me wanting all his clubs looking at. He is playing every day now and was going through all sorts of swing changes. In the end I refused to change anything until he had embedded some of the changes and we had a chance to start with some sort of reasonable baseline. He now plays off 1.

Obviously there are a whole host of examples in between these two ends of the spectrum. 

I'm not saying that fitting is the answer to all the golfers prayers because quite clearly it isn't. But neither is it "..just a fine tuning exercise that should be taken with a pinch of salt" either!!

Like I said at the start though - great write up and I enjoyed reading it.

[Jono]

I'm not saying that fitting is the answer to all the golfers prayers because quite clearly it isn't. But neither is it "..just a fine tuning exercise that should be taken with a pinch of salt".......cont.......

If you going through change was the actual quote.

[gripmyshaft]

I'm not saying that fitting is the answer to all the golfers prayers because quite clearly it isn't. But neither is it "..just a fine tuning exercise that should be taken with a pinch of salt".......cont.......

If you going through change was the actual quote.

Indeed, thats what I said / meant. Fitting is always advantageous other than when a player is making changes. Fitting in that case is good before and after those changes. I was kind of stating the obvious I guess, but was showing how that's true with my example

[Cols_Ears]

Very interesting write up Scott - assume Patrick was there with you as well?

Funnily enough I'm also planning to play the Cally X-Protos next year but with KBS Tour, same shafts as in my Miuras. Would be interested to get a hit of yours for comparison at some point when we've both finished them. I too will be adding weight to them, but was planning on going with Tip weights, and fine tuning with powder and cork down the shafts. I assume you use tape to keep the balance where the designer put it?
I agree completely about different swings needing different shafts and flex's though. I'm about 90mphish with the 6 iron and 105-110 with the driver, but still got the best results from an X stiff shaft due to the way I release it at the ball and the reduced spin I got with them. This is where fitting really comes into it's own as you can try different combinations and see what results you get.