In the bunker - Clarification please

[ecclesrec]

I know that you are not allowed to ground the club, but if you catch the sand on your back swing is that a penalty stroke?

Ta

[3puttwizard]

I know that you are not allowed to ground the club, but if you catch the sand on your back swing is that a penalty stroke?

Ta

I'd say yes

[Longshot]

Yes.

[Foxholer]

Definitely Yes.

Remember (one of) Michelle Wie's cock-ups!

Ross

[Lgl]

Yes.  I remember that Michelle Wie was penalised for it last year.

[MisterS3]

I thinks its even a penalty if you catch the grass growing on the lip of the bunker on your backswing

[Foxholer]

Yes.  I remember that Michelle Wie was penalised for it last year.

Though in her case, I believe it was moss.

Anything growing is OK to touch at address of on backward motion for the Stroke (or the stroke!)

Ross

[MisterS3]

Though in her case, I believe it was moss.

Anything growing is OK to touch as part of your swing - but not on a practice swing.

Ross

Cheers for the clarification Ross

[Foxholer]

Doh!

Can only do touch growing things it at Address (taken stance) or in backward motion for the stroke - so cannot touch on practice swings!

Ross

[Tin Pot]

Though in her case, I believe it was moss.

Quite right.  But that's loose impediments, 13-4-c. 

Moving sand could be improving ones lie, or rather dubiously testing the hazard.  Isn't that okay during the actual swing, for example you can knock leaves of a branch as long as it doesn't actually improve anything.

Let me check the rules....

[Tin Pot]

if you catch the sand on your back swing is that a penalty stroke?

No.

Rule 13-2 Exception.

However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
• in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,

The exceptions to this exception for being in a hazard, if you'll bear with me, do not contravene this.

[Tin Pot]

Oh crap.

A specific Decision on it has been made

13/4-31 Touching Sand in Bunker During Backswing

Q: A player playing a shot in a bunker accidentally touched the sand when making his backswing. What is the ruling?

A: The player was in breach of Rule 13-4b when he touched the ground in the bunker with his club before making the stroke – see Definition of “Stroke”.

[Keve]

Obviously we're all rule abiding folk on here but what about cheats, how would you prove an opponent touched the sand on their backswing.
a) it's very difficult to see,
b)they might not have felt it
c) they would deny it.

[Foxholer]

Obviously we're all rule abiding folk on here but what about cheats, how would you prove an opponent touched the sand on their backswing.
a) it's very difficult to see,
b)they might not have felt it
c) they would deny it.

In a 'standard' way - like ball moving etc.

If you saw the breach:

You ask them whether they breached the rule.
You tell them that you thought you saw the breach
If satisfied with their response, carry on.
If not satisfied with their response, you report them to 'the Committee'. Signing card? May choose not to (if cheating was blatant) or note card with 'concern'.

Ross