SureShot - legal in comps or not?

[MisterS3]

Just wanted to take the SureShot discussion out of the Scottish Winter Warmer as it has no relevance there. It's only relevant for club comps/opens.

So i've taken a few of my posts and posted them here:

Reading decisions again..it's the ability (whether enabled or not) to record strokes on the Sureshot and hence the "analysis of strokes made during that round" which mean disqualification from my understand of Decisions.

http://randapublic.loghar.com/flash/decisions/decisions.html

see 14-3/16 for yourself.

They use this phrase:

Using the device to access information on advice-related matters that were not published prior to the start of his round (e.g., analysis of strokes made during that round).

From my reading of it - knowing how far you hit a particular shot doesn't breaks that rule.

Aside: Nothing stops you doing your analysis on paper though. (i.e this decision covers EMD's). I guess this rule will change next time round.



From
http://www.sureshotgps.com/sureshotgps.php

Score your game
The Sureshotgps can record several key statistics as you play.  The advanced feature allows the recording of each fairway, green,putt & sand hit on each hole. A summary of information is displayed after each 9 holes and a can be saved on the unit for future reference.


That is why it could be considered illegal. As per decision - "analysis of strokes during round"

IIRC: The fact that an illegal feature is present on the devise is enough. The R&A don't trust you not to use it - again weird considering the rules of golf require so much self-governance.

[Galway Stevie]

I do not know why you insist on going on about this without providing evidence of it illegality.

You can see after 9 holes how many fairways, greens, putts and bunkers. This does not allow you to analyse strokes during the round and therefore does not break any rules.

Please provide evidence instead of trying to back up your argument with interpretation and gossip. 

[willhollin]

 

[AndrewPI]

The rule says advice related matters. If it told you that you carved it into the trees off the tee every time on the front 9 that isn't advice.

[BigJim]

Is club recommendation counted as advice?

[JohnC]

I do not know why you insist on going on about this without providing evidence of it illegality.

You can see after 9 holes how many fairways, greens, putts and bunkers. This does not allow you to analyse strokes during the round and therefore does not break any rules. Please provide evidence instead of trying to back up your argument with interpretation and gossip. 

Exactly! I can't see how this can be described as being able to analyse strokes!

[AndrewPI]

Is club recommendation counted as advice?

I would have thought so yea. That part of the device isn't allowed I believe yet I can't see why the analysis isn't.

[MisterS3]

I do not know why you insist on going on about this without providing evidence of it illegality.

I'm not going on about it.

I've moved the discussion from SWW thread to here because it has nothing to do with SWW (or any MSG events in my opinion - but that's up the organiser) - It has to do with rules and regs.

The same way others moved the 3/4's and Stableford discussion out of that thread.

Apologies for trying to clarify the rules. I don't know for sure. I'm putting it up for discussion. Same way that when i first started i was told by someone who was playing golf for 30 years to roll the ball 6inches back and forth out of a pitchmark as a rule...i discussed it and soon realised it wasn't an official rule but a golfing myth. As this might be.

[BigJim]

I would have thought so yea. That part of the device isn't allowed I believe yet I can't see why the analysis isn't.

Regardless of the analysis then, the device would be non-compliant and hence illegal.

Another thing that I don't understand if the recommendation doesn't take account of slope etc. just like knowing that you hit an 8 iron 150yds...

I think that the R&A have pretty much cocked up by the lack of absolute clarity here

[MisterS3]

Regardless of the analysis then, the device would be non-compliant and hence illegal.

Another thing that I don't understand if the recommendation doesn't take account of slope etc. just like knowing that you hit an 8 iron 150yds...

I think that the R&A have pretty much cocked up by the lack of absolute clarity here

Okay thinking about this again. I think i get what you and Andy mean about the club advice thing rather than the analysis thing.

How does the Sureshot recommend clubs?
You hit a shot, then measure it, and tell it what club you hit?

So you could do this during a round? 

And hence you could use "the device to access information on advice-related matters that were not published prior to the start of his round"


Is that what you guys mean?

[mattyarse]

You can see after 9 holes how many fairways, greens, putts and bunkers. This does not allow you to analyse strokes during the round and therefore does not break any rules.

 

I am not sure I understand how this differs from noting all of those elements on your card? 

[Galway Stevie]

I think you build up the information so in essence I would think the information is in the sureshot before you start the round.

During a round you can measure a shot but you cannot access this information until you upload it to the PC. (I have never enabled this feature as it seems pointless to me)

Sorry to bring up the Skycaddie again but during a round you can measure how far you hit a 7 iron allowing you for the rest of the round to know that this is the distance you hit that club on that day in those conditions.

[MisterS3]

Sorry to bring up the Skycaddie again but during a round you can measure how far you hit a 7 iron allowing you for the rest of the round to know that this is the distance you hit that club on that day in those conditions.

Start another thread on this point and skycaddie and we'll get steve from SkyCaddie to reply.

[Galway Stevie]

I am not for one minute questioning the legality of the Skycaddie so I do not need another thread to answer that question.

you are interpreting rules you quote as relevant to the features of the Sureshot and during a round of golf you can use a very similar feature to measure how far you hit a certain club. It is true that you can upload this information to some software and enable a feature to allow the sureshot to suggest a club to use when a certain distance from the green (this is useless as it does not take into account Gradient, Wind or ground conditions on the day) This information is obtained from previous rounds and is therefore information published before the start of the current round.

I can see this going back and forward a while. 

[MisterS3]

I am not for one minute questioning the legality of the Skycaddie so I do not need another thread to answer that question.

you are interpreting rules you quote as relevant to the features of the Sureshot and during a round of golf you can use a very similar feature to measure how far you hit a certain club. It is true that you can upload this information to some software and enable a feature to allow the sureshot to suggest a club to use when a certain distance from the green (this is useless as it does not take into account Gradient, Wind or ground conditions on the day) This information is obtained from previous rounds and is therefore information published before the start of the current round.

I can see this going back and forward a while. 

Okay i was gonna email sureshot, but i found this from GolfMagic.

http://www.golfmagic.com/forum/forummessages/mps/dt//UTN/19408/last/1/V/1/SP/

I know John posted this thread up about 18 month ago, but I thought I would point out that we are now the distributors of the brand new Sureshot 8800 GPS rangefinder and the club recomendation feature has been taken off the product.  Therefore the Sureshot 8800 is compeltely legal for use in competitions where the local rule allowing distance measuring devices applies.

Rod Brown

Managing Director

Motocaddy Ltd.

http://www.motocaddy.com/sureshot