What's the ruling

[MisterS3]

I'm confused GB. So you are saying there is no penalty for deliberately exerting outside influence on the ball because ......................it's not their ball and so can be deemed a movable obstruction?

Just looked up Rule 1-2 to get the wording

A player or caddie must not take any action to influence the position or the movement of a ball except in accordance with the Rules.
(Removal of loose impediment – see Rule 23-1)
(Removal of movable obstruction – see Rule 24-1)


2 stroke penalty is not applied in the example given above where the guy tee'd it up because of that definition of movable obstruction?

The decisions list i saw only listed abandoned balls.....not other players balls. Can you clarify?

[Stu-Pid]

The way I see it, the rules are reasonably straight forward:

Your or Your Partner's ball - If you, your caddie or your matchplay partner (not opponent) cause the ball to move outside of actions allowed within the rules (free drop, lift to identify, etc), whether it be accidental or not, then a 1 stroke penalty is applied and the ball must be replaced.  A DQ can also result if it is deemed to be a serious breach (i.e. cheating).

Anyone else's ball - If you cause someone else's ball to move then there is no penalty on you or the person whose ball it is and the ball must be replaced.  Again, if it is deemed to be a deliberate act of cheating, bad ettiquette or gamesmanshop then penalties or a DQ may apply.

A good example of this would be in a medal if someone missed a putt and left it 1 inch short of the hole, and then one of their playing partners said "that's good" and knocked the ball back to them, forgetting that it was a medal.  In this case, the ball would simply be replaced with no penalty for either side, again assuming that the person in question acted without thinking and was not deliberately seeking to waive a rule of golf.

[MisterS3]

The way I see it, the rules are reasonably straight forward:

Care to quote any decisions or rules to back up the way you see it?

I ask because Rule 24-1 (movable obstruction) doesn't apply in my reading to a ball in play on the course - no matter who it belongs to. Because the decisions i have seen on rule 24-1 explicitly states "Abandoned Balls".

[Stu-Pid]

Care to quote any decisions or rules to back up the way you see it?

I ask because Rule 24-1 (movable obstruction) doesn't apply in my reading to a ball in play on the course - no matter who it belongs to. Because the decisions i have seen on rule 24-1 explicitly states "Abandoned Balls".

How about:

Rule 18: Ball at Rest Moved

18-4. By Fellow-Competitor, Caddie or Equipment in Stroke Play
If a fellow-competitor, his caddie or his equipment moves the player’s ball, touches it or causes it to move, there is no penalty. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced.

[MisterS3]

How about:

Rule 18: Ball at Rest Moved

18-4. By Fellow-Competitor, Caddie or Equipment in Stroke Play
If a fellow-competitor, his caddie or his equipment moves the player’s ball, touches it or causes it to move, there is no penalty. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced.

Ta that's what i was talking about.......

Now if the person puts the ball on a tee like in GB's example.......... ?

[Stu-Pid]

Now if the person puts the ball on a tee like in GB's example.......... ?

No different, except if the committee decides that it is an act of gamesmanship or poor ettiquette, in which case action can be taken.  The player whose ball it was would simply remove the tee and drop his ball at a spot as near as possible to where it originally was.

[MisterS3]

No different, except if the committee decides that it is an act of gamesmanship or poor ettiquette, in which case action can be taken.  The player whose ball it was would simply remove the tee and drop his ball at a spot as near as possible to where it originally was.

So there's no penalty for not replacing the ball?

If that's the case, it's gonna be a long day at Woodhall Spa 

[golf_bhoy]

"except in accordance with the Rules." covers it.  No penalty.  Rule 18-4 (quoted above).

Where is the decisions list you saw?  I wouldn't mind a read of that, if it's not the Decisions book itself (got that in another window just now).

Who replaces the ball?  The player who teed it up, or the player whose ball it is?  The Rule doesn't say.  No penalty on the player who teed it up for not replacing the ball.  An etiquette reprimand, but not DQ since he didn't put the other player at a serious disadvantage.

[Keve]

How does the player know the tee wasn't still there from winter rules play and just happened to have bounced and landed there, how does he determine his ball was moved by another player? If I walk to my ball and it's in a divot how can I be sure the group in front didn't put it there as a prank?

[Stu-Pid]

So there's no penalty for not replacing the ball?

If that's the case, it's gonna be a long day at Woodhall Spa 

It depends, you should replace the ball, and it is bad etiquette not to, but unless you are deliberately trying to put the player in question at a disadvantage, then poor etiquette is all that you are guilty of.  The committee would decide your punishment, if any.

At WS you would be deliberately be putting someone at a disadvantage (I know that you were joking by the way) and so would be punished in some way.  As it was your team mate that you were trying to help, it might even be that he would lose the hole as you could argue that the whole team are his matchplay partners.  Would have to look into that one.

[MisterS3]

It depends, you should replace the ball, and it is bad etiquette not to, but unless you are deliberately trying to put the player in question at a disadvantage, then poor etiquette is all that you are guilty of.  The committee would decide your punishment, if any.

I guess putting the ball on a tee could be deemed trying to help the guy out   I know i wouldn't mind having my 2nd shots tee'd up for me

[golf_bhoy]

Care to quote any decisions or rules to back up the way you see it?

I ask because Rule 24-1 (movable obstruction) doesn't apply in my reading to a ball in play on the course - no matter who it belongs to. Because the decisions i have seen on rule 24-1 explicitly states "Abandoned Balls".

Rule 22-2, not 24-1.  There are no Decisions under Rule 22-2.

How does the player know the tee wasn't still there from winter rules play and just happened to have bounced and landed there, how does he determine his ball was moved by another player? If I walk to my ball and it's in a divot how can I be sure the group in front didn't put it there as a prank?

The likelihood of it happening is slim to none.

[Longshot]

There's a simple answer.

Write your name and address on each ball together with the date and which round of the competition (if applicable) along with a number denoting if it's the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc ball you've put in play during that round.

[Tin Pot]

How does the player know the tee wasn't still there from winter rules play and just happened to have bounced and landed there, how does he determine his ball was moved by another player? If I walk to my ball and it's in a divot how can I be sure the group in front didn't put it there as a prank?