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The Club House => Tour Golf => Topic started by: Gareth on Nov 09, 2020, 22:56:26

Title: US Masters 2020
Post by: Gareth on Nov 09, 2020, 22:56:26
Pro game RIP?

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/he-hit-what-heres-what-bryson-dechambeau-hit-some-augusta-nationals-greens-last-week (https://www.golfchannel.com/news/he-hit-what-heres-what-bryson-dechambeau-hit-some-augusta-nationals-greens-last-week)

Really hope that this isn’t the case and BDC doesn’t ruin Augusta National  :omg:
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 10, 2020, 07:31:47
My view is the horse has bolted.  The USGA and R&A should have acted 20 years ago.

Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Cols_Ears on Nov 10, 2020, 10:03:15
I'm really looking forward to the Tournament and the coverage - haven't been that interested in the PGA Tour for a while now since it returned, although I was surprised to see some, albeit sparse, galleries last week in Houston while I was channel hopping.

It'll be really interesting to see the course at this time of year, and it's going to look so different without all the crowds patrons.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: david92 on Nov 10, 2020, 16:20:10
To be honest what could the authorities do when the gap between the amateur game and pro game has widened so much and they are representing all golfers?...and they got royally screwed when they tried to enforce stuff like the grooves and Ping sued them...the golf ball which is the "villain" needs to be rolled back no doubt but I think the thought is the pro's wont be impacted as much as the ams if they do that
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 10, 2020, 16:25:26
To be honest what could the authorities do when the gap between the amateur game and pro game has widened so much and they are representing all golfers?...and they got royally screwed when they tried to enforce stuff like the grooves and Ping sued them...the golf ball which is the "villain" needs to be rolled back no doubt but I think the thought is the pro's wont be impacted as much as the ams if they do that
Agree with that. I think they should have a tournament ball. Masters would be the perfect place to try it as they seem to have little space to expand further, and all the pros would still want to play it because it's the Masters.

Title: US Masters 2020
Post by: hotbaws on Nov 10, 2020, 19:14:01
I read the Masters have planted more trees to combat some of the lines the bombers want to take off the tee and they’ll do more if required from their nursery on site.


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Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Gareth on Nov 11, 2020, 10:46:00
I read the Masters have planted more trees to combat some of the lines the bombers want to take off the tee and they’ll do more if required from their nursery on site.


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Heard that too Gary.

However if BDC hits it onto the 14th fairway over the trees from the 13th tee (where the hole narrows/the driving zone) there aren't going to be any trees there to stop him  :thumbdown:
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: sharkygolf on Nov 11, 2020, 11:32:20
 This is where we need internal out of bounds as it’s a safety issue....
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: braehead on Nov 11, 2020, 11:42:48
Change the ball if you want by Bryson will still be able to hit it further than anyone else.  I don't know how to fix it though other than similar comments re more penal rough etc.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 11, 2020, 13:01:04
Change the ball if you want by Bryson will still be able to hit it further than anyone else.  I don't know how to fix it though other than similar comments re more penal rough etc.

It's not that I object to him hitting it further than anyone else, it's more that because now everyone hits it so far, the courses have to be so long and aren't the challenge in the way they once were, so a lot of the classics are considered too short for top level golf.

Let's be honest, the old course is too short and is only really a challenge if the weather is bad.

I know in javelin, the changed it because athletes were starting to through out longer than the field. Golf ought to be the same.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Cols_Ears on Nov 11, 2020, 13:10:42
I have come to the conclusion that the only way to stop the current distance gains in the Pro (and maybe elite amateur) game from ruining the game we love is Bifurcation - a different set of equipment rules for them than for us - and the easiest was to do that is a ball that doesn't go as far. Yes the equipment manufacturers would object as we wouldn't want to buy the ball the pros are using, but given a few years we'd all get used to it, and who knows perhaps then we'd buy a ball that is actually the best suited to our individual game rather than the one that's most used on the PGA tour.

just saying... :popcorn: :huh:
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Gareth on Nov 11, 2020, 17:13:33
Change the ball if you want by Bryson will still be able to hit it further than anyone else.  I don't know how to fix it though other than similar comments re more penal rough etc.


He might well hit it further Keith but he's not going to send a tournament ball 400 yards through the air if the technology actually prevents that. I seem to recall quite some years ago that Jack Nicklaus was building a short course in the Cayman Islands and they had a ball designed for that specific purpose......see below;

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/91452-the-jack-nicklaus-golden-bear-cayman-sig (https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/91452-the-jack-nicklaus-golden-bear-cayman-sig)

Not suggesting something quite that extreme here, but a tournament ball that knocked, say, 50-75 yards off most pro drives would make it a far more interesting game, level the field and put an emphasis on shot making and the short game. The equipment manufacturers would hate it, as would the shorter hitters on tour but when great golf courses are being turned into drive and chip courses there is a risk of it ruining the game and something needs to be done in my view.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 11, 2020, 17:26:39
I agree Gareth but don't hold much hope.  Especially when your see what the authorities have fiddled with, like anchoring putters.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Blofeld on Nov 11, 2020, 21:12:02

He might well hit it further Keith but he's not going to send a tournament ball 400 yards through the air if the technology actually prevents that. I seem to recall quite some years ago that Jack Nicklaus was building a short course in the Cayman Islands and they had a ball designed for that specific purpose......see below;

https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/91452-the-jack-nicklaus-golden-bear-cayman-sig (https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/91452-the-jack-nicklaus-golden-bear-cayman-sig)

Not suggesting something quite that extreme here, but a tournament ball that knocked, say, 50-75 yards off most pro drives would make it a far more interesting game, level the field and put an emphasis on shot making and the short game. The equipment manufacturers would hate it, as would the shorter hitters on tour but when great golf courses are being turned into drive and chip courses there is a risk of it ruining the game and something needs to be done in my view.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to design a ball that's performance dropped in line with the level of compression applied by a golfer....so slower swinging players would find their shots affected by the "reduced performance ball" proportionally less than the musclemen.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 11, 2020, 21:18:09
Not sure if it's been posted before but i watched this video a while back. Amazing what just small changes to the dimples can do

https://m.facebook.com/titleist/videos/10156709955031800/

I think they are trying to say buy Titleist for consistency but does show what could be done
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Dick in Shorts on Nov 12, 2020, 16:46:29
Think Bryson is somewhat overpowering Augusta!!!

Not the start he wanted I’m sure. Started on 10 with 3 pars and a double on 13
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: david92 on Nov 12, 2020, 17:14:58
The faldo suggestion was to limit the length of driver shaft and reduce the driver head size...that would work as then only the best players would find the sweet spot
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Gareth on Nov 12, 2020, 20:31:38
The faldo suggestion was to limit the length of driver shaft and reduce the driver head size...that would work as then only the best players would find the sweet spot


That is just never going to happen in my view David. Choking back the ball/having a tournament ball is the only workable way here.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Dick in Shorts on Nov 12, 2020, 21:40:26
US baseball have the pro game using different bats  to am game

Squash has different ball for pro game

Just a couple of other sports that have dealt with equipment differences

However equipment manufacturers in golf have shown themselves to be powerful relative to R&A/USGA
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: euros on Nov 13, 2020, 07:33:22
Just like hogan called it, the game is still the same as it was 10, 20 or 30nyears ago. He said that the bestbputter of the longer hitters will usually wins and a shorter hotter will pop up now and again.

Has anything changed?
Is bryson winning every tournament he turns up at?
If you really want to equal it up then have split fairways with heavier rough. If a long and short hitter are playing their seconds from same spot them the longer hotter will still have an advantage hitting a shorter club from there and should have a higher accuracy with shorter club off the tees.

I'm not saying that this is the ultimate option but think people are stuck onto believing that the ball is the only option. Loads of different options together could lead to making it more risk reward for longer hitters and keep the manufacturers content.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 13, 2020, 09:14:38
I don't think the issue is making it equal. As you say, the long hitters will always be the long hitters. To me it's about making the game fit the arena (the courses) such that courses don't continually need to be lengthened (with more resource, more maintenance) and hazards become irrelevant.

Clearly this really only effects elite golf. For hackers like me, existing courses are fine, which is why I'd have thought a tournament ball makes most sense.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: david92 on Nov 13, 2020, 10:31:04
I don't think the issue is making it equal. As you say, the long hitters will always be the long hitters. To me it's about making the game fit the arena (the courses) such that courses don't continually need to be lengthened (with more resource, more maintenance) and hazards become irrelevant.

Clearly this really only effects elite golf. For hackers like me, existing courses are fine, which is why I'd have thought a tournament ball makes most sense.

Totally agree as the longer the courses they and we play the higher the cost to maintain, the longer the round takes and stupidly more expensive to adapt current brilliant old courses to new distances
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: euros on Nov 13, 2020, 10:55:07
Courses can change in ways other than getting longer, one is getting tighter at certain distances also with thicker penal rough. Again the tour comes once a year or every few years so that could be taken away once they've gone. This doesn't have to be on every hole, you could let the long hitters enjoy their advantages on certain holes and constrain them/put loads of real risk of penalty on others. Having said this I've seen where they have done this and the commentary makes a big thing of it and its light semi rough which isnt a penalty to them; I mean a real penalty to be in it.

In this im just trying to provide examples of how many things could change to improve things and not having to always hark on about one element.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: SkankyShanky on Nov 13, 2020, 11:11:25
wouldn't it become a bit one dimensional to rely on narrow fairways and heavy rough to "protect" the course (US Open?)

I think with a simple change to the ball, courses that have existed for the last 100 years+ would still relevant today, like the old course. Instead of where they are now where the distances the ball travels makes their original challenges reduced or obsolete.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: euros on Nov 13, 2020, 12:40:48
wouldn't it become a bit one dimensional to rely on narrow fairways and heavy rough to "protect" the course (US Open?)

As I said, one option that could be used by its own or with others. My point is that its not just the ball, you can use other ways by their own or in combinations to get the desired result.

Other options include (for tournament golf only) reducing cor on driver, making heads smaller, making it irons only, etc.
Title: Re: US Masters 2020
Post by: Blofeld on Nov 15, 2020, 16:35:08
I have liked the different camera angles that have been available this year...some of the low angles really highlight the undulations that face the players.

Also...without the "patrons" you really see how some of the green complexes are just sat in the middle of nowhere...quite featureless if it wasn't for the actual green undulations.  Just had a look on Google Earth as well....how wide are some of these fairways?

Big  :thumbup: for Langer...great to see him doing so well.