* *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Mar 20, 2019, 05:55:19

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Practice on the course  (Read 2957 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Practice on the course
« on: Aug 29, 2016, 11:51:32 »
I may have upset the club captain yesterday after spotting a few juniors practicing on the course before the Junior Captains Prize.

I asked him about it and he said there is a local rule in place that allows practice on the course outwith 3 majors for the gents. He got quite animated about the whole thing and threw the piece of paper in front of me.

The rules in question are 7.1 Practice on the course with what he had as a Local Rule stating 33-c

Having read both of these it looked to me that 33-2c is for clubs that have no practice facilities and is not intended to be available as a local rule but as a Competition condition.

Loughrea has 2 practice areas marked as out of bounds to the right of the 3rd and in between the 7th and 16th.

Was I right to question this or is the committee entitled to interpret the rule as they did and apply it as a Local Rule?

« Last Edit: Aug 29, 2016, 11:55:33 by Galway Stevie »
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Dick in Shorts

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • 4 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 2738
  • Thanks: 5
  • Inverurie GC, Moray GC
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #1 on: Aug 29, 2016, 13:27:02 »
I think you were right

iirc the Rules also state that if there is no practice area it is permissible to practice near the first hole - but not on the course

I came close to falling foul of this when I was chipping between the first tee and the 18th green.

:ping: G400 SFT 12 deg driver
:ping: G400 SFT  5 wood
:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
:wilson: Staff D300 6 - PW
:titleist: SM6 50/54/58 deg
:scottycameron: Futura 5S
:callaway: Supersoft

2018 Results:2nd NE Alliance class 2 OOM; 1st Inverurie Seniors Open; Inverurie Seniors Handicap Champion - retained title; Inverurie seniors outing winner - defended title
Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£101
CONGU Handicap 2018: 12.6>12.7>10.3>11.6
Moray winter handicap:11.6>10.7>9.9>10.0>10.1>10.2
>10.3>10.4>10.5
Inverurie winter handicap:11.6>11.4>11.2>11.3>>11.1
>11.2>11.3>11.1>10.3>10.4
NE alliance handicap:12>11>10

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #2 on: Aug 29, 2016, 13:38:09 »
I think you were right

iirc the Rules also state that if there is no practice area it is permissible to practice near the first hole - but not on the course

I came close to falling foul of this when I was chipping between the first tee and the 18th green.

The rule does state that chipping and putting may be permitted near the first teeing ground and as you said it should be specified where you can be practice and not include competition course greens or bunkers  :thumbup1:

<taken from randa.org>

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground
 or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.


Note: The Committee
 may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course
 on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course
 or part of the course
 (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Dick in Shorts

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • 4 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 2738
  • Thanks: 5
  • Inverurie GC, Moray GC
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #3 on: Aug 29, 2016, 13:42:56 »
7b will override any local rule - as it is not permissible to have a local rule which is in contravention of the Rules
:ping: G400 SFT 12 deg driver
:ping: G400 SFT  5 wood
:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
:wilson: Staff D300 6 - PW
:titleist: SM6 50/54/58 deg
:scottycameron: Futura 5S
:callaway: Supersoft

2018 Results:2nd NE Alliance class 2 OOM; 1st Inverurie Seniors Open; Inverurie Seniors Handicap Champion - retained title; Inverurie seniors outing winner - defended title
Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£101
CONGU Handicap 2018: 12.6>12.7>10.3>11.6
Moray winter handicap:11.6>10.7>9.9>10.0>10.1>10.2
>10.3>10.4>10.5
Inverurie winter handicap:11.6>11.4>11.2>11.3>>11.1
>11.2>11.3>11.1>10.3>10.4
NE alliance handicap:12>11>10

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #4 on: Aug 29, 2016, 13:49:49 »
7b will override any local rule - as it is not permissible to have a local rule which is in contravention of the Rules

Cool thanks. As I pointed out to the captain you don't want to be teaching juniors the wrong thing as they will probably be disqualified from something in future due to something the club captain and gents committee are teaching them
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Colin L

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gap Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Thanks: 2
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #5 on: Aug 30, 2016, 23:33:30 »
It is within the rules for the Committee to permit practice on the course on the day of a stroke competition.  Conversely, it is permitted to prohibit practice on the course on the day of a match play competition.  It should really be a Condition of Competition rather than a Local Rule, but the authority to permit stroke play or prohibit match play practising is built into Rule 7-2b in the form of the Note.  I expect Stevie's club has in fact used the authority of that Note to permit practice on the course before a stroke competition but if it is written in as a Local Rule would be better to change it to a Condition of Competition.  In effect, however,  permitting practice cannot contravene Rule 7b because the authority to permit it comes from Rule 7b.

The Captain would be better referencing the Note to Rule 7b than Rule 33-1c, in my view.  As I see it, 33-1c is about making a practice provision on part of a course when there is no practice ground, the general prohibition to practising on the court still being in place. 

In conclusion, if the juniors are being taught, as it seems,  that it is possible to permit practice on the course before a round on the day of a stroke play competition, they are being taught correctly.






Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #6 on: Aug 31, 2016, 09:42:56 »
The local rule at my club is shown as 7-1 using 33-8 and 33-2c to implement it

Rule 7-1

a. Match Play

On any day of a match play competition, a player may practise on the competition course
 before a round.

b. Stroke Play

Before a round or play-off on any day of a stroke play competition, a competitor

 must not practise on the competition course
 or test the surface of any putting green
 on the course
 by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

When two or more rounds of a stroke play competition are to be played over consecutive days, a competitor

 must not practise between those rounds on any competition course
 remaining to be played, or test the surface of any putting green
 on such course
 by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground
 or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-1b:
Disqualification.


Note: The Committee
 may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course
 on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course
 or part of the course
 (Rule 33-2c) on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

Rule 33-8

a. Policy

The Committee
 may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I.

b. Waiving or Modifying a Rule

A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee
 considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorised by the R&A
.

Rule 33-2c

c. Practice Ground:

Where there is no practice ground available outside the area of a competition course
, the Committee
should establish the area on which players may practise on any day of a competition, if it is practicable to do so. On any day of a stroke play competition, the CommitteeThe "Committee" is the committee in charge of the competition or, if the matter does not arise in a competition, the committee in charge of the course.
View definition
 should not normally permit practice on or to a putting green
 or from a hazard
 of the competition course
.
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #7 on: Aug 31, 2016, 09:51:09 »
Firstly 33-1 doesn't seem to state anything. The situation at Loughrea is not an abnormal condition as there are 2 practice areas in place marked out of bounds and rule 33-2c states that if no practice area exists outwith the competition course clearly

33-8 states that is a local rule is to go against a rule of golf it must be permitted by the R&A

Loughrea is using a local rule to permit practice on the course in all but 3 competitions throughout the year. Is my interpretation of this incorrect as I think it is clear that in the event of a lack of practice facilities the committee may designate an area of the course used for practice as a condition of competition recommending that bunkers and greens are not used for this purpose.

WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Colin L

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gap Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Thanks: 2
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #8 on: Aug 31, 2016, 21:44:46 »
The committee may permit practice  on the competition course before a round of a stroke play competition, using the authority of the Note to rule 7-2b,  whether there are practice facilities off the course or not. 

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #9 on: Aug 31, 2016, 21:55:38 »
Sorry Colin and I'm sure I'm being thick here but I can't see the part of the rule you are referring to. This is rule 7-2 pasted straight from randa.org

A player must not make a practice stroke
 during play of a hole.

Between the play of two holes a player must not make a practice stroke
, except that he may practise putting or chipping on or near:

a. the putting green of the hole last played,
b. any practice putting green, or
c. the teeing ground of the next hole to be played in the round, provided a practice stroke is not made from a hazard and does not unduly delay play ( Rule 6-7).

Strokes
 made in continuing the play of a hole, the result of which has been decided, are not practice strokes
.

Exception: When play has been suspended by the Committee
, a player may, prior to resumption of play, practise (a) as provided in this Rule, (b) anywhere other than on the competition course
 and (c) as otherwise permitted by the Committee
.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE 7-2:
Match play - Loss of hole; Stroke play - Two strokes. In the event of a breach between the play of two holes, the penalty applies to the next hole.

Note 1: A practice swing is not a practice stroke
 and may be taken at any place, provided the player does not breach the Rules.




Note 2: The Committee
 may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit:

(a) practice on or near the putting green
 of the hole last played, and
(b) rolling a ball on the putting green
 of the hole last played.

WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #10 on: Aug 31, 2016, 22:02:57 »
If it is the note in 7-1 I pasted in earlier this can be done as a condition of competition based on 33-2c and that states that you can do this if a designated practice area is not available.
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Blofeld

  • Trade Count: (+35)
  • Driver
  • *****
  • Posts: 10892
  • Thanks: 60
  • Brett Vale G.C. Captain 2014
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #11 on: Sep 01, 2016, 00:08:34 »
If it is the note in 7-1 I pasted in earlier this can be done as a condition of competition based on 33-2c and that states that you can do this if a designated practice area is not available.

But 33-2c doesn't state that you can do this ONLY if there is no designated practice area. It doesn't say anywhere that, if you have a practice area then you cannot introduce a CoC allowing practice on the course.

Remember... unless the rules say that you CAN NOT do something.... then you CAN do it.

I believe the intention in 7-1 is to only reference 33-2c in the event that you want to define a specific part of the course for practice. I personally believe that the intent of 7-1 would be better served by inserting comma's as below...

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course
 on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course, or part of the course
 (Rule 33-2c), on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.

Callaway Epic 10.5* / Hzrdus T800 6.0
Ping Rapture 13* / Rapture reg
Ping G400 14.5  / Tour 75 reg
Ping G400  19* & 22*/ Tour 80 reg
Callaway Apex CF16 6-AW / DG XP95 stiff
Callaway MD4 54* & 58*
Gauge Design Tera

Offline Galway Stevie

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • 2 Iron
  • ***
  • Posts: 4442
  • Thanks: 23
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #12 on: Sep 01, 2016, 08:06:46 »
But 33-2c doesn't state that you can do this ONLY if there is no designated practice area. It doesn't say anywhere that, if you have a practice area then you cannot introduce a CoC allowing practice on the course.

Remember... unless the rules say that you CAN NOT do something.... then you CAN do it.

I believe the intention in 7-1 is to only reference 33-2c in the event that you want to define a specific part of the course for practice. I personally believe that the intent of 7-1 would be better served by inserting comma's as below...

Note: The Committee may, in the conditions of a competition (Rule 33-1), prohibit practice on the competition course
 on any day of a match play competition or permit practice on the competition course, or part of the course
 (Rule 33-2c), on any day of or between rounds of a stroke play competition.


Thanks Nick, that is probably the the bit I didn't quite understand. So at the end of the day the committee should have this as a condition of competition and not a local rule.

My thinking was that 33-2c was the rule the committee can use to implement a condition of competition but if it is an advisory to rule 7-1 then that is clearer to me.

Am I still correct in thinking the fact that the committee has a Local rule stating 7-1 then 33-8 and 33-2c should be changed to a condition of competition?
WITB

Callaway XR 10.5 (Set 11.5 Neutral)
TE Exotics 16.5* CB1 Bassara X-flex
Callaway UT 18*
Adams Idea Pro 20*
Ping i 4-PW AWT 2.0 Reg
Ping Gorge 52* Reg
Ping Gorge 58* Reg
Whitlam Proto 33"

Current Club. Galway Bay Golf Club HC: 12.7

Offline Blofeld

  • Trade Count: (+35)
  • Driver
  • *****
  • Posts: 10892
  • Thanks: 60
  • Brett Vale G.C. Captain 2014
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #13 on: Sep 01, 2016, 09:40:59 »



Am I still correct in thinking the fact that the committee has a Local rule stating 7-1 then 33-8 and 33-2c should be changed to a condition of competition?

I believe that it should be a CoC not a local rule.

Colin L in one of his earlier posts also supports this point of view.
Callaway Epic 10.5* / Hzrdus T800 6.0
Ping Rapture 13* / Rapture reg
Ping G400 14.5  / Tour 75 reg
Ping G400  19* & 22*/ Tour 80 reg
Callaway Apex CF16 6-AW / DG XP95 stiff
Callaway MD4 54* & 58*
Gauge Design Tera

Offline Colin L

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gap Wedge
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Thanks: 2
Re: Practice on the course
« Reply #14 on: Sep 01, 2016, 13:20:07 »
The Note to R7-1 refers to a condition of competition.  The obvious reason for that is to allow for such a condition to be made specific to certain competitions - in the case of Stevie's club it does not include their majors, for example. 

 

Recent