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Author Topic: Handicap & Qualifying rounds  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline Dick in Shorts

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Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« on: Apr 04, 2017, 09:40:23 »
Well -the season started for me on Saturday and by Monday I had played the required three qualifying rounds to maintain my handicap for another year.

Surely most golfers  would play at least 6 qualifiers in a six month season?

I know the English have decided to take more note of "other" scores but there must be a better way.

I'm not sure the US way of all rounds counting -too many gimmes and mulligans etc - but somewhere in between would see.m sensible.

What do you think?
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2019 Results:3rd NE Alliance class 2 OOM; James Brighouse Trophy Moray
Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£518
CONGU Handicap 2019: 11.6>11.7>11.3>11.4>11.2>11.3>11.4
>11.5>11.6>11.7>11.8>11.6>11.2>11.3>11.4>11.5>11.6>11.7
>11.8>11.9>12.0>12.1>11.9>12.0>12.1>12.2>12.3>12.4>12.5
>12.6>12.7>12.8>12.9>13.0>12.7>11.8

Offline SkankyShanky

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #1 on: Apr 04, 2017, 10:02:17 »
I think as it is, is OK. 3 might not sound like many, but at our (admittedly very small) club, we only have about 18 comps per year and some people do struggle with other commitments and due to our tee time restrictions. Perhaps at normal clubs this isn't an issue.

I don't think social rounds should count. There is definitely something different about playing with a card in your hand (at least to me there is).
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Offline Blofeld

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #2 on: Apr 04, 2017, 10:56:20 »
Sadly....social rounds will count by right in the future.

The recent requirements to keep a log of "non-qualifiying" scores (whether played away or as part of a regular roll-up/swindle at your own club) for reference purposes at the time of the Annual Review is just the first step to the UK migrating to the same handicapping scheme as the US.....the adoption of a so-called "Global Handicapping Scheme".

Funnily enough....my home course is being rated for Slope this coming Monday.

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Offline Chip Out Sideways

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #3 on: Apr 04, 2017, 13:22:01 »
Having lived in the US I do not like their system and I have always wondered how it is policed properly.  Slope and rating makes sense but all rounds counting in some form has so many flaws as a system, let alone the prospect of making golf slower rather than faster.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #4 on: Apr 04, 2017, 15:35:16 »

I know the English have decided to take more note of "other" scores but there must be a better way.

The recent requirements to keep a log of "non-qualifiying" scores (whether played away or as part of a regular roll-up/swindle at your own club) for reference purposes at the time of the Annual Review is just the first step to the UK migrating to the same handicapping scheme as the US.....the adoption of a so-called "Global Handicapping Scheme".


I must have missed something - what scores are English clubs keeping tabs on now? Are roll-ups not classed as counting medal rounds at most clubs?

Also, I've had a handicap continually for over 20 years and I've never had an 'annual review' - what is an annual review?

If you pop it round 6 deep in a roll-up are you likely to get a chop?

Offline Blofeld

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #5 on: Apr 04, 2017, 15:54:23 »
I must have missed something - what scores are English clubs keeping tabs on now? Are roll-ups not classed as counting medal rounds at most clubs?

Also, I've had a handicap continually for over 20 years and I've never had an 'annual review' - what is an annual review?

If you pop it round 6 deep in a roll-up are you likely to get a chop?

England golf have advised clubs that their players should start informing their home club of their performance in "non-qualifying competitions" held at away clubs. They also want clubs to start getting an understanding of how players are performing in regularly held roll-ups, swindles and other semi-formally organised rounds.

 (the term "roll-up" to me encompasses several different sorts of play....we have several competitions throughout the year where the comp tee-times are not fixed....anyone can play during the day and enter the competition.....on the flip side we also have, on non-competition days, groups of tee times blocked out for informal groups to play together under whatever format they like under social conditions....these are not club competitions but semi-formal social golf....nothing to do with the Competitions Committee).

The requirement to report scores includes formats such as Team events, singles, 4BBB but not Scrambles, Greensomes or Forusomes.

The recording of such rounds is purely to provide additional information to the handicap committee at the time they conduct the Annual Review.

The Annual Review is a process that all handicapping committees should follow (think the general dates are anytime between November 1st and Jan 31st) where the local clubs handicapping computer system has the ability to run a report by which a players performance through out the year is statistically analysed....players who's performance is better/worse than the "statistical norms" are then flagged up by the computer which makes a recommendation as to how much a players handicap might be increased/decreased.

With regards your final answer....no, you wont automatically get a chop.....but continued good performance may well be taken into account if the computer flags you for a handicap change at the annual review.


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Offline Blofeld

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #6 on: Apr 04, 2017, 15:57:07 »
some Q&A's on the "new rules"...
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Offline Stu-Pid

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #7 on: Apr 04, 2017, 16:23:30 »
Thanks for the information Nick.

I've long said that I've always found it strange that someone can play 50- 60 rounds of golf a year but their handicap will only be based on 10- 20% of those rounds.  I know that there is an argument for the 'card in hand' pressure, but ultimately I've always thought that a HC should reflect someone's ability to play golf, not ability to play golf under a very specific set of conditions.

I also think that some of the issues with the US system are less to do with every round counting (although that is not actually the case, it's best 10 of last 20 cards I think) and more that it seems that many US golfers are completely unable to play to the correct rules.  I would have thought that most swindles and society golf in the UK play to the usual rules of golf, and in general I think that UK golf culture is a long way from the US culture of mulligans and rather 'generous' interpretations of the rules.

More importantly though, does anyone really care if someone possesses a vanity HC?  I guess when you get down to Cat 1 levels a vanity HC could be detrimental in terms of allowing qualification for competitions which really you shouldn't be eligible for, but for 90% of the players in the UK a HC that is too low by a shot or two is not going to cause anyone any problems other than themselves.

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #8 on: Apr 04, 2017, 16:24:11 »
They also want clubs to start getting an understanding of how players are performing in regularly held roll-ups, swindles and other semi-formally organised rounds.

That's Stanster f**ked then....
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Offline Dick in Shorts

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #9 on: Apr 04, 2017, 17:15:31 »
Thanks for the information Nick.


More importantly though, does anyone really care if someone possesses a vanity HC?  I guess when you get down to Cat 1 levels a vanity HC could be detrimental in terms of allowing qualification for competitions which really you shouldn't be eligible for, but for 90% of the players in the UK a HC that is too low by a shot or two is not going to cause anyone any problems other than themselves.

It's more of a problem with people who protect a high handicap,so they can go and win pairs comps in opens knowing they won't get cut
:ping: G400 SFT 12 deg driver
:ping: G400 SFT  5 wood
:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
:wilson: Staff D300 6 - PW
:titleist: SM6 50/54/58 deg
:scottycameron: Futura 5S
Vice Pro Soft

2019 Results:3rd NE Alliance class 2 OOM; James Brighouse Trophy Moray
Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£518
CONGU Handicap 2019: 11.6>11.7>11.3>11.4>11.2>11.3>11.4
>11.5>11.6>11.7>11.8>11.6>11.2>11.3>11.4>11.5>11.6>11.7
>11.8>11.9>12.0>12.1>11.9>12.0>12.1>12.2>12.3>12.4>12.5
>12.6>12.7>12.8>12.9>13.0>12.7>11.8

Online Stanster

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #10 on: Apr 04, 2017, 17:24:47 »
That's Stanster f**ked then....

Oi  :ninja: :lol:

Offline Stu-Pid

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #11 on: Apr 04, 2017, 17:32:51 »
It's more of a problem with people who protect a high handicap,so they can go and win pairs comps in opens knowing they won't get cut

Yes, and under the new system they will be 'caught out' as those results have to be declared.  The current system makes it far easier to protect a high handicap by only entering 3 competitions a year to keep your handicap active, while you can clean up in the swindles and away competitions by playing better than your HC.

Offline Blofeld

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #12 on: Apr 04, 2017, 19:53:07 »
Will be interesting to see how many of our club who are playing at Diss on Friday log their score with the club.

(We have a folder in the club shop for the purpose of logging scores....I know one of our ex-Captains logged a score recently after playing in a Suffolk Captains meet but will be interesting to see how many other folks are aware, or just plain bothered, enough to log their score)
« Last Edit: Apr 04, 2017, 20:23:42 by Blofeld »
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Offline Chip Out Sideways

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #13 on: Apr 04, 2017, 20:16:04 »
Another thing that worries me is the inability of the current system to properly take account of those of us who play opens.  If we cannot get this right (which it seems most clubs and players cannot) when official competitions are played what chance of 'casual' rounds being properly logged.  I have been a member of many clubs and played lots of opens and I cannot tell you the issues I have had in ensuring those rounds were properly added to my handicap record, even when chasing the host club or my own club.
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3 wood - TM V Steel Tour Issue - RIP Phenom Regular
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Offline Dick in Shorts

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Re: Handicap & Qualifying rounds
« Reply #14 on: Apr 04, 2017, 20:40:40 »
It's the players responsibility to return away scores to their home club for handicap adjustments.

I always kept my stableford score and made a point of finding out the CSS so any adjustment was accurate.

However in recent years I now check CDH and HDID to ensure that my away scores are updated within a few days by the away club as they should get returned automatically now.

This may only apply to  Scotland
:ping: G400 SFT 12 deg driver
:ping: G400 SFT  5 wood
:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
:wilson: Staff D300 6 - PW
:titleist: SM6 50/54/58 deg
:scottycameron: Futura 5S
Vice Pro Soft

2019 Results:3rd NE Alliance class 2 OOM; James Brighouse Trophy Moray
Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£518
CONGU Handicap 2019: 11.6>11.7>11.3>11.4>11.2>11.3>11.4
>11.5>11.6>11.7>11.8>11.6>11.2>11.3>11.4>11.5>11.6>11.7
>11.8>11.9>12.0>12.1>11.9>12.0>12.1>12.2>12.3>12.4>12.5
>12.6>12.7>12.8>12.9>13.0>12.7>11.8

 

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