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Author Topic: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion  (Read 4655 times)

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Offline 3puttwizard

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World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« on: Jul 27, 2020, 23:07:25 »
Christ I’m confused already  :rolleyes:
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Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #1 on: Jul 27, 2020, 23:58:00 »
Christ I’m confused already  :rolleyes:

you wait....we haven't even started yet!!!
Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
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Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #2 on: Jul 28, 2020, 09:52:25 »
Nick

Am I right in thinking that as long as you know your Handicap Index it’s more than likely that your Course Handicap will be available from a table - or if using an app calculated by it - depending on the tee you’re playing from.
Any adjustment for the format would then be similar to what we do now - eg 90% for better ball difference

Correct. People who supposedly know more than I do keep talking about a mobile app but so far there is no sign of any development of one so I'll wait for it to be delivered by a unicorn.

The tables should be published by your club and displayed in prominent places...noticeboard, in a window (facing outwards - so folks can see it when the club house is shut) or perhaps by the first tee (bespoke signage can be purchased from Eagle Golf who pretty much print every golf club in the lands scorecards!!).

TBH the maths for converting Handicap Index to Course Handicap isn't complex....CH = HI/113*Slope Rating of the Course You are playing....but its not something you could do easily in the head, hence the provision of tables. At clubs who have Player Entry Terminals where you register for your round in advance it is expected that the underlying system will calculate your Course and Playing handicaps for you.

There are changes to the Handicap Allowances for various formats in the new system.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves.  :chuckle: More on course and playing handicaps will follow in the future.
Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
Scotty Special Select Flowback 5

Offline 3puttwizard

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #3 on: Jul 28, 2020, 10:39:20 »
you wait....we haven't even started yet!!!

When you play a round of golf your Handicap Index is converted into a Course Handicap and then into a Playing Handicap depending upon the format of golf (Singles Strokeplay, Singles Matchplay, 4BBB etc etc) you are about to play.


Seriously how confusing is that?

So if you play the same course every week in a medal/stableford then all 3 should be same number?
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2020, 10:41:36 by 3puttwizard »
WHS 12.9

M.6 10.5 Speeder Evo 661 X
M2 3HL Hzrdus Black
JPX 900 Forged 4-PW KBS X
Cally 47/52 wedges
SM6 58 M Grind
Rife Barbados
TP5x/Z Star XV

Offline Dick in Shorts

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #4 on: Jul 28, 2020, 10:46:02 »
No - you need to use the slope adjustment to calculate your playing handicap

Scottish Golf differ from England at the moment - we have no exceptional scoring adjustment .

The Scottish Golf App - VMS - looks like it has the functionality to show your playing handicap when you check in for a competition. It knows your Index and knows which tees and slope adjustment.

IIRC in US most scorecards has a table on them - or maybe it was In the Strokesavers?
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2020, 10:48:19 by Dick in Shorts »
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:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
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 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£582 2020=£284

WHS HI: 12.1
Alliance H’cap: 13 >12

Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #5 on: Jul 28, 2020, 10:57:36 »
When you play a round of golf your Handicap Index is converted into a Course Handicap and then into a Playing Handicap depending upon the format of golf (Singles Strokeplay, Singles Matchplay, 4BBB etc etc) you are about to play.


Seriously how confusing is that?

So if you play the same course every week in a medal/stableford then all 3 should be same number?

No. Your Handicap Index is based on a course that is considered to be of "standard relative difficulty" (i.e. a course with a slope rating of 113)...it is not reflective of your ability round your home course.

You Course Handicap will see your Handicap Index adjusted based on the Slope Rating of the Course you are about to play. Your Playing Handicap will depend on the format of golf you are playing.

Were getting ahead of ourselves but here is an example...

I have a Handicap Index of 13.4 and I am about to play from a set of tees that has a Slope Rating of 124.

My Course Handicap is therefore 13.4/113*124 = 14.7  which gives a Course Handicap of 15.

I decide to play an individual singles strokeplay event (medal, stableford, bogey). The handicap allowance for singles strokeplay events will be 95%....15*0.95 = 14.3....so my playing handicap is going to be 14.

Does that help?
Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
Scotty Special Select Flowback 5

Offline 3puttwizard

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #6 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:06:13 »
Handicap 11 Index , Slope is 120 off the whites

11/113*120 = 11.68 = 11.7

12*0.95=11.4

Seems a hell a of crazy way to get back to a number. So in theory my exact handicap allowance that day has gone up due to the Slope/Tees I've played off?
« Last Edit: Jul 28, 2020, 11:10:41 by 3puttwizard »
WHS 12.9

M.6 10.5 Speeder Evo 661 X
M2 3HL Hzrdus Black
JPX 900 Forged 4-PW KBS X
Cally 47/52 wedges
SM6 58 M Grind
Rife Barbados
TP5x/Z Star XV

Offline om

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #7 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:14:53 »
So we are going form a very straight forward system (CONGU) to a crappy and very complicated system. :sarcastic:

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Handicap 2011 20.1-20.2-20.3-20.4-20.5-21.5 (stupid review)
Handicap 2012 21.5-19.6-19.3-19.6
Handicap 2013 19.6-19.3>>20.2-19.1-17.5-17.6-17.7-16.8-15.9-16-16.1-16.2-16.3-16.4-16.5-15.3
Handicap 2014 15.3>>16.3-15.1-15.2-15.3-15.4-15.5>>14.9>>15.8-12.9

Offline SkankyShanky

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #8 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:16:56 »
half of our members can't even fill out a card properly, so I don't fancy their chances of correctly determining what handicap to use
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Offline 3puttwizard

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #9 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:26:46 »
half of our members can't even fill out a card properly, so I don't fancy their chances of correctly determining what handicap to use

In the handicap section on the card, just put a question mark  :lol:
WHS 12.9

M.6 10.5 Speeder Evo 661 X
M2 3HL Hzrdus Black
JPX 900 Forged 4-PW KBS X
Cally 47/52 wedges
SM6 58 M Grind
Rife Barbados
TP5x/Z Star XV

Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #10 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:27:59 »
Handicap 11 Index , Slope is 120 off the whites

11/113*120 = 11.68 = 11.7

12*0.95=11.4

Seems a hell a of crazy way to get back to a number. So in theory my exact handicap allowance that day has gone up due to the Slope/Tees I've played off?

Yes....because your Handicap Index is based around a course with a slope rating of 113.
Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
Scotty Special Select Flowback 5

Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #11 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:29:25 »
No - you need to use the slope adjustment to calculate your playing handicap

Scottish Golf differ from England at the moment - we have no exceptional scoring adjustment .

The Scottish Golf App - VMS - looks like it has the functionality to show your playing handicap when you check in for a competition. It knows your Index and knows which tees and slope adjustment.

IIRC in US most scorecards has a table on them - or maybe it was In the Strokesavers?

No DiS. Slope is used to calculate your COURSE Handicap, not your Playing Handicap.

The course handicap lookup table will either be displayed on a noticeboard, on the scorecard/strokesaver or on signage close to the first tee. Here is a practical example (forgive the German...its from the Nobilis course in Turkey which is a German owned club)
Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
Scotty Special Select Flowback 5

Offline 3puttwizard

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #12 on: Jul 28, 2020, 11:31:28 »
So basically anyone playing at a high slope rated course could see their handicap increase during the switchover?

Maybe 130+ slope would give them 0.5 more? ( assuming medals off whites for example)
WHS 12.9

M.6 10.5 Speeder Evo 661 X
M2 3HL Hzrdus Black
JPX 900 Forged 4-PW KBS X
Cally 47/52 wedges
SM6 58 M Grind
Rife Barbados
TP5x/Z Star XV

Offline Blofeld

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #13 on: Jul 28, 2020, 12:03:50 »
So basically anyone playing at a high slope rated course could see their handicap increase during the switchover?

Maybe 130+ slope would give them 0.5 more? ( assuming medals off whites for example)

The opposite is more likely.

If I'm regularly shooting say 10 over SSS and SSS is 70 this would give me a handicap of 10. Now lets assume that under the WHS the Course Rating happens to be the same as the SSS (its usually pretty close).

So...my handicap index would be calculated as 10/130*113 = 8.7

When you go and play in a club comp the calculation is reversed...your course handicap is 8.7/113*130 = 10.0

Because the Handicap Index represents your ability round a standard course, players who make regular score returns around a course with a higher slope will see a lower handicap index, those playing a course with a slope lower than 113 should see their scores adjusted updwards.

It is this slope rating element that will allow players to go away and play at other courses and play off a handicap that is reflective of the relative difficulty of that course.

Callaway Rogue Driver 10.5* / Aldila Synergy 50 reg
Callaway Rogue 3-wood 15* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Rogue 5-wood 19* / Aldila Synergy 60 reg
Callaway Mavrik Heavenwood 20* / UST Helium 50 reg
Callaway Apex 4H 23* / Project X Catalyst 70 reg
Callaway Apex CF19 6-PW / TT Elevate 95 reg
Vega Alcor 50*, 54* & 58* / Shimada Wedge flex
Scotty Special Select Flowback 5

Offline Dick in Shorts

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Re: World Handicapping Scheme Education Discussion
« Reply #14 on: Jul 28, 2020, 12:18:04 »
Another way of putting that is my clubs

Under SSS the following applies:

INVERURIE - par 69 - SSS 68 so in effect I need 37 points in a Stableford to play to par - or another way of looking at it is I play off 11 (handicap is 12) to get back to par

Moray- par 71 - SSS73 - so I need 34 points here for ‘par’ - or I’m effectively playing if 14

So much the same happens with course index and slope adjustment.

Nick - if this is garbage then please delete!!!
:ping: G400 SFT 12 deg driver
:ping: G400 SFT  5 wood
:ping: G400  4(22 deg) & 5(26) deg) Hybrids
:wilson: Staff D300 6 - PW
:titleist: SM6 50/54/58 deg
:scottycameron: Futura 5S
:vice: Pro Soft

Prize Money: 2010=£276  2011=£406 +2 bottles Malt Whisky 
 2012=£351 2013=£95 2014=£240 2015=£225 2016=£475
2017=£368 2018= £767 2019=£582 2020=£284

WHS HI: 12.1
Alliance H’cap: 13 >12

 

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